Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/13/1999 03:04 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 113 - POSTSECONDARY EDUC FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS Number 0076 CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL announced the first order of business as House Bill No. 113, "An Act relating to a program of postsecondary education for high school students." Number 0096 EDDIE GRASSER, Legislative Assistant for Representative Beverly Masek, came forward to present the sponsor statement: House Bill 113 will provide eleventh and twelfth grade students in secondary schools in the state of Alaska an option for taking postsecondary classes at a nearby college campus. It is modeled after a program already in effect in 21 other states. House Bill 113 gives high school students the opportunity to take more advanced classes within the university system and count them toward their requirements for graduation from high school or for college credit. The bill further recognizes that secondary students are part of the public education foundation formula and provides for tuition assistance whenever the secondary student chooses to count college courses toward his or her high school graduation requirements. House Bill 113 will give our public school students more options in planning their curriculum. Instead of being limited to those classes offered by the local high school, this bill, if enacted, would give our public school students a wider variety of options by including courses available at the local college campus. Such an option will provide for an inexpensive method for high school students to take advanced education classes that wouldn't otherwise be available. We are all looking for ways to improve our educational system. Expanding opportunities for our young people is one way we can accomplish that. House Bill 113 takes a step in that direction. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON commented that in many communities the "nearby" college courses are offered right in the high school. He desires that the line between secondary and postsecondary education get really blurry. High school students and adults could be taking courses intermingled during the day in the same facility. Number 0312 CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked if it was true that Mark Hamilton, President of the University of Alaska, had asked for a seamless transition between high school and college, and he asked if this is what he was talking about. MR. GRASSER replied that this bill is the result of requests from several constituents in their area. He believes it is true in regard to what President Hamilton said, but that wasn't the reason for the bill. Representative Masek's office has been working with Co-Chairman Dyson's office on this bill, and there is a proposed committee substitute. Number 0419 CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON made a motion to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 113, version 1-LSO461\G, Ford, 3/31/99, as a work draft. There being no objection, that proposed CS was before the committee. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked whether they are just asking the school district to pay the tuition for those high school students who are already taking college course. He asked how the system works now. Number 0464 MR. GRASSER agreed that there are several places in the state where students are taking college classes. There are a variety of systems out there dealing with this. Nome-Beltz pays a flat fee per class rather than the normal tuition fee; other places charge whatever any college student would pay, and the students get college credit. This bill is looking for a way to fund the tuition for those students who would like to take the advanced classes but are not financially capable. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked why a student couldn't get college credit as well as high school credit. MR. GRASSER explained the bill says they can choose either one; but they will also get college credit if they choose to enroll in the University of Alaska system after high school. They can get dual credit after they have graduated from high school. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that the University of Alaska Fairbanks (UAF) has high school students taking college courses and getting credit for both, and he doesn't want this bill to undermine that ability. MR. GRASSER indicated that their goal is to come up with a workable solution for students in high school to take advanced classes at the college. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON pointed out that in Section 1 in the CS, it is his intention to remove the age of 20 as the cap for which a child can attend a secondary school, and allow the school to get reimbursement under the foundation formula. This bill allows students to finish high school who were not able to finish before they were 20 for whatever reason. Some districts have been allowing those students to attend, even when the foundation formula didn't follow; this allows the foundation formula to follow the students. Some very enlightened districts in this state are allowing people who are older than 20, who are not a problem or threat to the school, to finish their studies with the high school students. There have been good results from that. One of the districts has a 58-year-old grandmother and a 28-year-old ex-drunk. When the high school students see these older people come back because they believe education is important and valuable, perhaps the high school students will appreciate the value of their own education. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON pointed out that schools are capable of excluding those people over 20 who are going to be a threat to the students or a problem to the school. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE commented that he is glad to see the protection for the school in there. He wonders if they will run afoul of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) on line 12 where a governing body is allowed to not include someone based on a physical ability. MR. GRASSER explained if the school didn't have an ability to make some assertion as to the progress of students above the age of 20, they could end up with people who would be there for a long time, and the state would have to pay under the foundation formula. This is the language the bill drafter came up with. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked if a student gets credit for a college course but doesn't complete his high school diploma, what happens to the college credit. Number 1146 CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON said if he got the college credit, he got the college credit. It won't do him any good if he doesn't meet the standards to get into the university. If he takes another route to get into the university, once he is there the credits ought to be there for him. Number 1208 ROBERT SEWELL, Student Resources Coordinator, University of Alaska Southeast (UAS), came forward to testify. He was asked by Representative Masek's office to speak to some of his concerns and considerations. He speaks as a representative of the university, as a parent and as a child advocate. He spoke briefly of three efforts that relate to this bill, although to this point, they have all been independent. The first is the College Connection at UAS, the "Ahead Program" at UAF, and another through the Anchorage school district called "Credit by Choice." To some extent this is an idea whose time has come. A number of the states already offering this program, offer dual credit, where the student can get simultaneous credit at the high school and college, and he advocates that. This is not a dangerous nor new concept. There are Juneau-Douglas High School students enrolled at UAS now. There is a fiduciary issue. Today most of the students who take the college students have parents who can afford to pay the tuition. This should be a concern to them. The haves are getting it, and the have-nots aren't. DR. SEWELL said there is a way to get dual enrollment. There is a form to fill out at the local school, but he is concerned that the students who take the university classes are not aware of that process. This is not a systematic program. The College Connection at UAS is still conceptual and has gone through committee work involving the school district, the university and an advocacy voice called the Extended-Learning (EL) Pact. The EL Pact is a group of parents of students who are identified as extended learning or gifted and talented, of which there are over 400 in the Juneau school district. Those parents are very concerned, and he is one of them, that their children are not getting the degree of acceleration and enrichment as befits their intellectual acumen. This is the second issue. DR. SEWELL has a 13-year-old daughter. When she was 12 she took a English 110 at UAS. She did fine, and she was well received. He suggested that there are many students still waiting to be challenged in the high school classes, and often students whose needs are not met tend to drift. The cost in those cases is an opportunity cost. He recommended that HB 113 allow students younger than eleventh grade be considered eligible. The College Connection at UAS allows juniors and seniors to take two courses per semester and freshmen and sophomores to take one; there are some rare middle school students, who can and are, taking classes that they can benefit from. DR. SEWELL mentioned the third issue as a child advocate where this is one of those steps towards individualizing the educational process. It is a relatively cost-effective step. Number 1512 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the high schools students who wanted to take college courses would displace college students. DR. SEWELL said the general answer is no. A lot of courses are offered whether or not they have the maximum number of students. There are almost always a few seats available. Some states give priority to the college students, and the high school students have to wait until there is a spot. He doesn't see overdemand as a big problem. Number 1574 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if there is an affect from the maturity level of the high schools students. DR. SEWELL believes that there is parental responsibility to be sure their child is not getting in over his head. He suggested that the student and his parents would have to meet with the high school counselor and the college counselor where three things would be emphasized: This starts your college transcript; this is different than high school, they are not going to follow the students around; and college is a place where they talk about all things, and some of those are necessarily adult content. Number 1768 MR. GRASSER noted that the bill on page 2 answered Representative Green's question. Students who have graduated from high school have priority over those still enrolled in high school. The bill also protects the high school from students leaving en masse to take a college course, if the same course is available at the high school. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if they were acknowledging the receipt of the GED [general equivalency diploma] as the same as having a high school diploma in Section (d). MR. GRASSER wasn't sure but would get back to him on that question. REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked if there was anyone present from the school district to testify. Number 1866 BETH LAPE, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Education (DOE), spoke up and said they weren't prepared to testify on the bill yet. They were still working on the fiscal note and the CS. MR. GRASSER said the sponsor's intent is that the HES Committee work on several of the issues brought up today before it is moved out. He believes they still need to discuss the funding mechanisms with both the school districts and the DOE and address the issue of how the students make it from the high school to the college classroom. Number 1968 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked about the implications of adults finishing their high school education on the adult basic education (ABE) programs. He wondered if one impact of this legislation would be to move the people currently in ABE programs into the high schools. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON explained that in many communities there is not a good basic adult education program. A good model for delivering high school equivalence is in a local high school. In some areas, it may make more sense logistically or for childcare, for the adults to go to the local high school. He guesses that there will be an interesting nexus between the university, adult basic education and secondary schools about who gets the money, and who can deliver the services. His major interest is what is best for the student. Hopefully, there will be a marketplace out there where students can pick the option that works best for them. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL understood that the university was offering free tuition to students with good grades, and if they reach into the high school for certain college courses, and there are exceptional students, it may be that the university could be a part of the funding picture. Number 2215 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noticed that the bill says a student "shall" be admitted. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON noted that in the original draft the "shall" was modified to "may," and he didn't realize in this version the "shall" is still in. He will amend that. He wants the school districts to want the students and to take advantage of this but not be forced to do it. Number 2270 CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON made a motion to amend HB 113, page 1, line 10 to replace the word "shall" with "may." CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked whether there was any objection to Amendment 1. There being none, Amendment 1 was adopted. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON mentioned he has had extensive talks about this bill with Shirley Holloway [former Commissioner of DOE] before she retired, and she was really enthusiastic about the blurring of the lines between college and high school and allowing adults who chose to and were qualified to come back and finish their high school diploma. TAPE 99-35, SIDE B Number 2327 CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if the DOE knows when they will have the numbers for them. Number 2322 MS. LAPE answered they are working on it right now. She thought she could have the numbers by next Thursday. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON suggested that the sponsor look at page 2, line 3 and consider lowering the age requirement of eleventh grade in light of the testimony they heard. He also suggested adding something about the process of the student meeting with both high school and college counselors. MR. GRASSER offered to work with the committee and the suggestions they heard to try to make this an Alaskan bill. They are open to suggestions, and they are trying to offer an opportunity to students to better their educational format. Number 2195 CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON made a motion to continue the hearing on HB 113 until Tuesday of next week. There were no objections. The Committee took an at-ease from 3:54 p.m. to 4:01 p.m.
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